Robot Control Methods

[Smokeypipeman]

Thought it would be good to start something on controlling a robot since it is the link between man and machine. It is one of the aspects that is neglected in discussions. Will go through my Japan pics and find some of the real interesting "home-made" controllers.

[HarryBotter]

This could cover a fairly broad range, from tethered robots to various versions of wireless control and then on to autonomous operation.

I've noticed that for autonomous operation, the most common controller seems to be the ATMega128 chip. I'm sure that's not what you maen by controller types so I'll get out of here. :)

[Smokeypipeman]

I am thinking more about the unit in your hands. Some use RC controls, Xbox controllers, PS2 controllers, Touchscreen Palm Pilots, Laptops, Home-builds with arms(That one was pretty cool. Daddy was controlling the walking, son was controlling the arms), and even a body suit for the upper body.

I have to find the link for the last one.

[Smokeypipeman]

The young fellow with the Gundam. You do not see him using it but you see the suit. I will see if I can find a better link a bit later.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2frobot.watch.impress.co.jp%2fsta tic%2f2006%2f08%2f08%2froj1601.wmv

[tempusmaster]

The young fellow with the Gundam. You do not see him using it but you see the suit. I will see if I can find a better link a bit later.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2frobot.watch.impress.co.jp%2fsta tic%2f2006%2f08%2f08%2froj1601.wmv
That's Majingaa Jr. (Nagoya) vs King Kizer Jr. (Maru family - Osaka). Both teams have used the same type of control harness (master/slave) though Maru-san seems to have gotten away from using it in recent matches.

The initial development was done by the Great Majingaa team, though certainly the technology has been around for a long, long time. They were using the Motion Processor controller board in their robots (sold by Kondo but developed by Nakamura-san at Himeji Soft Works). Early versions just implemented following the arm movements but later they added body twisting and hand held game controllers.

In most of the bouts the operator depends heavily on the game controller buttons, but when the arms and body twists come into play it's pretty deadly. Here's a detailed writeup with photos (http://www.majingaa.com/majingaa/report/03mas_sre), though it may be a little dated now.

[tempusmaster]

I am thinking more about the unit in your hands. Some use RC controls, Xbox controllers, PS2 controllers, Touchscreen Palm Pilots, Laptops, Home-builds with arms(That one was pretty cool. Daddy was controlling the walking, son was controlling the arms), and even a body suit for the upper body.

I have to find the link for the last one.
You're right - they seem to have hacked almost anything and everything except for the kitchen sink to come up with controlers. ;)

I don't have any hard statistics or data to support this, so I could be way off base, but my general impression is that the folks that use laptops and PDAs seem to have a lot of problems since they are constantly taking their attention away from the battle to focus on the screen and keyboard or touchpad.

The ones that seem to do better use their controllers, whether they are game controllers or custom master/slave rigs, as an extension of their body. As you alluded to in another post, they become one with the robot and keep focused.

Spatial orientation is another big issue. There are always competitors, even in the top ranks, that have major problems when their robot turns around facing them. They typically turn around themselves and then look over their shoulder to guide the robot, or in some cases run around to the other side of the ring (it's allowed in the Osaka Robo-Fight and Robo-Gong events but not in ROBO-ONE).

I'm really curious about how people in other related "sports" like RC car racing deal with the issue.

[HarryBotter]

Spatial orientation is another big issue. There are always competitors, even in the top ranks, that have major problems when their robot turns around facing them. They typically turn around themselves and then look over their shoulder to guide the robot, or in some cases run around to the other side of the ring (it's allowed in the Osaka Robo-Fight and Robo-Gong events but not in ROBO-ONE).

I'm really curious about how people in other related "sports" like RC car racing deal with the issue.

I can help here, I'm heavily into RC flying and own an RC car. :) Initially it's quite a challenge to cope with the reversal of control movements and people do a number of things to cope. Some, as you mention, turn their backs to the action while others envision sitting in the cockpit or driver's seat. Eventually it just becomes second nature and the operator doesn't even have to think about these changes.

[tempusmaster]

I can help here, I'm heavily into RC flying and own an RC car. :) Initially it's quite a challenge to cope with the reversal of control movements and people do a number of things to cope. Some, as you mention, turn their backs to the action while others envision sitting in the cockpit or driver's seat. Eventually it just becomes second nature and the operator doesn't even have to think about these changes.
So, how do you go about accelerating the process of making it second nature?

Quite a few years ago I had the chance to try out one of the full scale flight simulators at SGI. It was fantastic, but I ran into the same problems. My natural tendency was to focus on the controls, so I kept crashing. Eventually, just before my time ran out, I was able to focus on the screen and forget about the controls, and everything went really smoothly.

Is it just a matter of practice, practice, practice - or are there some proactive things you can do to get better quicker?

[HarryBotter]

Is it just a matter of practice, practice, practice - or are there some proactive things you can do to get better quicker?

I'd guess that this ability has more to do with the make-up of the person than any methodology. Some, usually the younger people, catch on very quickly while others, like myself, tend to fight it. Once you've got it though it becomes second nature and the conscious mind seldom gets involved.

Having said that, most agree that, for flying at least, a flight simulator can help. I didn't use one, they bore me to tears. It's probably just a matter of time before someone develops a robo-one sim. :)

[tempusmaster]

Having said that, most agree that, for flying at least, a flight simulator can help. I didn't use one, they bore me to tears.

Me too.
It's probably just a matter of time before someone develops a robo-one sim. :)
There are several. You can even try your skills as a robot pilot against The Great Majingaa.

http://www.majingaa.com/majingaa/report/index_html_tool

Most of the simulators are home grown, though they actually do a pretty good job at it. There are some being sold here commercially. They usually come preloaded with the KHR-1 geometry model and have provisions for you to add your own robot geometry. Some of the folks are working with the new Microsoft Robotics Studio simulation, but haven't had much luck yet.

[HarryBotter]

There are several. You can even try your skills as a robot pilot against The Great Majingaa.

http://www.majingaa.com/majingaa/report/index_html_tool

Thanks, I'll have to attempt to get one of these going. Babelfish, where it does work, seems to provide more humor than content. I'll keep trying.

Some of the folks are working with the new Microsoft Robotics Studio simulation, but haven't had much luck yet.

I've tried to get the MRS sim going but apparently my 8 month old $2000 laptop doesn't have enough video resources to handle their sim engine. So much for its suitability for the "novice user". :)